If for any reason you are not satisfied with the merchandise you ordered, just return it within 90 days to receive a refund in the manner of original payment for merchandise only. This is what I got/where I’m at. That means you must use the largest rise and the largest run at a MINIMUM when scribing the stair. Since you lose about an 1/8-inch per cut, the parts should end up measuring two at 17 inches and one at 13½ inches, all by 24-inches-wide. DO NOT adjust the scribe for each step or this method will not work. But….not all woods are created equal. I have two questions. I was a custom home builder for 25 years before ‘retiring’. Thanks so much for the reminder to use the tallest and widest step. Don Zepp would have been proud of you – passing the baton to future generations of craftsmen! My problem now is the 10 steps above the landing that go from the basement to the first floor. After an hour of contemplating, and running through the comments. Had I never read this article, I might have had much anxiety about scribing in a skirt board, if that’s the way it played out. I had a series of flights of stairs in a new house where the treads and risers were installed before the baseboard detail was decided upon. I just did the scribing as instructed, I’ve cut the part that rests on the floor, but my scribe lines are 3/4-1″ above the steps and looking at the photo his rests level with the treads, so… Any help would be appreciated. Very slick and easy to apply . Edge-joining (without bar clamps). No need to tape and worry about getting paint on the new stairs! I do believe that I also read Norm’s article. Thanks for the great idea. Great article. Your order will come with a return form with convenient instructions, or you may send your returns directly to Returns Department, Rockler Woodworking and Hardware, 4365 Willow Drive, Medina, MN 55340. I sure wish I had know about this great trick. Great article. As a working carpenter for the last 40 years I have used this method at different times in my career when necessary. So I understand that it makes sense to put skirt boards on first. When it comes to making money time is everything. No, the basic principle for any kind of scribe is that the entire finished piece has to move over (or up, or down) a set amount, dictated by a single setting of the scribing device. Carl’s pic of the treads look like they’re pretty flushed to the walls at the ends. With the inevitable differences from one side to the other, I bet you’d end up tossing the traced side and starting over. Todd Murdock Jon, I have been educated. Also, I found that the little OOK nails, the black ones with the brass, knurled collars, from the picture hanging kits made great sharp and reusable scribers. Todd For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. 2.5 hours! Several years ago I had to install a skirt board on existing steps. Most stairs are pretty uniform so it won’t be an issue but I have run into some that were a half inch off and had to recut because of it not reaching in the corner. The scribe’s mark will then be that much lower on the skirt: If one tread is 1/16” lower than all of the other treads, the scribe mark will reflect that, and tell you to remove that much less waste stock right there. I really appreciate it. The upper treads are all enclosed in the staircase, but the lower treads are exposed on one side. Details. But a Veritas log scribe would probably be the best tool, with its level bubbles to help guard against tipping the scribes. Any ideas? Thank you, Norm and Don Zepp for a wonderful method of installing the skirt board. Before it was above it, and now it’s alongside it. Picture Frames - Pocket hole joinery gives you exceptionally tight mitered picture frame joints without difficult corner-clamping. Gary, I can understand the wood scribe is the ideal, but would card be a good solution for me if my stair is inset in a stairwell and has walls rising at either end? I’m not a contractor, I’m a computer tech. Next, could someone do a blind dado for stairs in a skirt board? Treads and risers risk more shrinkage due to the direction of the grain when installed. Wm. 39. It made the rest of the cutting very easy. Thanks for that… Todd Murdock Penny in Colorado, Can’t…can’t build a wall. Thank You. 2. I am a mechanic by trade but have done a lot of rents around my own house and will nip away at a board until I get it right or start over ( maybe some OCD) I believe almost everything complicated is only made up of a lot of very small simple things – it must start somewhere . I’m working on a remodel now and would like to add a skirt board under the bottom of the last six treads. Thank you so much for this! Exactly the instructions and advice that I needed. However, if you are dealing with shoddy carpentry (from previous builder), wouldn’t you have to relocate the scribe point for each tread (horizontally)? Do you have a lesson in how to close in a stringer? Wondering if you have any suggestions on how to add a skirt board to closed stairs that have a 180 degree turn with steps around the turn that are placed on radials. First time to attempt scribing. I have a jig/tool that I created to get each tread and riser cut to the proper length. If you read everything he wrote you’ll see what he says makes sense. This may seem counter intuitive when you are dealing with variable tread heights and widths, but it is essential for this system to work. Learn Woodworking Tips & Tricks with Rockler, Kreg Foreman Semi-Automatic Pocket Hole Machine (DB210), High-quality brands and products you can trust, Expert advice and free post-purchase support, Exclusive, innovative products that help you Create with Confidence, Detailed instructions, technical specs and guides to make the most of your purchases. This string is very simple. Thankfully, he welcomed me. The pictures are worth 10,000 words! Great article. High compression pocket hole joints will give you squeak-free stairs every time and you won't have to set a single nail. Sun: 9:00am to 6:00pm. I finally got a chance to put this method to work for me. Excellent article. Now it makes sense. Find some stiff quality cardboard and rip it down to the size of your skirt stock and go through these steps and perfect your scribe to stairs. The first time I came across a rise to be a little different I adjusted. I wasn’t planning on replacing the carpeting just yet, but am wondering if doing so would force me to prematurely replace the carpet in the stair way. Rockler offers weather-treated screws from Kreg made just for the purpose. They're quite expensive to purchase but much cheaper to make, and they aren't overly difficult to construct. This a fantastic lesson I understand completely Great man, teacher and tradesman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The timing of this learning lesson is uncanny, thank you. Pocket hole joinery makes it easy to assemble odd-angled parts and gives curved forms extra rigidity. Would you than have to change the height of the brad for each tread? Great, just great. As a Hancock Lumber webTrack enabled customer, you can view your account information, download invoices and statements, look back at your product purchase history and view live inventory & pricing! Depending on how accurate you need to be it is sometimes best to, if your tread overhang is 1 1/4 to only cut it at 1″ to leave room for a final scribe to allow for error in your plumb lines. Knowledge and application saves time! Great info for the DIYer. * the biggest difficulty is scribing the nosing and ensuring your scribe stick is level or 0 degree perpendicular and not getting a bunch of chicken scratches that create a tendency to get sloppy when it comes time to cut when it counts. The beauty of this method is that by scribing the actual stair condition to the skirt board material transfers any irregularities automatically. Time IS money. If you just go with the bottom one and it is a short one then in the corner on the back of the tread meets the riser you may have to add a piece. And Rockler Woodworking and Hardware makes it easy to find just the tool you're looking for with our broad selection of Kreg pocket hole joinery systems accessories and supplies. See all 40 Amazon promo codes, coupons & discount codes that work for Feb 2021. We did have to tweak just a bit to perfect it but we are now sold on this process. Understandably many would rather a lower cost but if I am paying for 10K sq ft home a couple hundred dollars for the quality doesn’t seem like a bad trade off. This amount should be equal to, or slightly greater than, the largest gap. And pocket hole joinery is becoming an increasingly popular method for joining the members of cabinet carcases, and for joining carcases to face frames. There is a door at the top of the steps. Perhaps a cardboard template is a more “flexible” option for me? My skirting is 325mm high. The once I cut the bottom of the board to lay on the floor, the part that faced the trim will now butt to the top riser. Now retired, I have left handed open treads and I wanted to install skirt board on the right side against the wall. The bottom of the counterbore (the "pocket hole") sits about 1/2' back from the edge being joined and provides room for the head of the screw. Items shipped directly from the manufacturer cannot be returned in store. In photos #5 and #6, the author is shown scribing the bottom of the skirt to the floor, and in the very end, it will drop straight down from there, on the Y axis. I was fortunate to have attended a three-year, post-high school trade/tech school, the Williamson Free School of Mechanical Trades. Nice article, I often look at Don’s picture I have posted on my bookcase at home and still can’t believe how he could crosscut a 1×12 perfectly square with a hand saw and no line to follow. In short, if you can operate a drill, you can make a perfect pocket hole joint in a matter of minutes. Penny. The scribe line above it will match that cupping. However, I did want to say to Keith that it could definitely work on carpeted stairs. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU….You Tube has failed miserably on this particular need. (In England!). Since we build 5k to 10k Sq ft homes, its a must to save time, when building and getting it done fast to be used. I have had my own business for a little over three years now. My stair risers are very inconsistent heights, and this method worked like an absolute charm, accommodating all irregularities. I use a slight back-cut angle of about 4 to 5 degrees—this helps ensure a really tight fit when the skirt is driven into place. What do you do with the varying different heights of the skirting board if it has top and central moulding? Thanks. 6. I sure would love this made into an instructive Youtube video. Would it be better to install the skirt first and then the treads on afterward flushed to the side skirts. Some of the brads would run out and off the skirt, but the others would come in behind and finish up the markings. Reference resources abound (TiC, the Journal of Light Construction, WOODWEB.com—the list goes on and on) and are also great ways to learn. I am definitely an amateur DIYer – this was my first project with a jigsaw! Manufacturer guarantees/warranties for power tools, CNC and laser products will supersede the Rockler Guarantee if these items are damaged or defective. I can’t believe I stumbled onto your post this morning. I mean, after all, it’d be foolish to think that you could make so many intricate cuts and expect to end up with a flawless fit. thanks for taking the time to put this article together, it has helped me no end, ive been worrying about doing this job at home and now i have the technique i feel confident. If you could answer this I’d be most grateful.. Thank you for sharing. A great big thank-you to Carl for posting this informative article, and for all that have posted responses on this discussion string. It seems like installing the skirts first and then cutting the treads and risers with a 5* back-cut would give a very tight and clean fit with less effort. Cutting cardboard is a pain in the neck. I must admit I was skeptical but I am a believer now after having completed my project. And guess how long it took! Free Shipping. 1. I would appreciate the contractor working on my place to go the extra mile. Thanks for the memory. He may no longer be with us, but his methods will stand the test of time. I used this on a remodel I’m doing for myself, and it works like a charm. Would the same technique apply if a skirt was to be added underneath treads that are designed to stick out past a finished wall? Happy New Year. This scribe method is such a slam-dunk. Loved the article and will help me add a skirt to some existing carpeted stairs, if I can solve another problem. Try this: imagine one extremely cupped tread. Length Laminate Stair Nose Molding Stair Nosing is designed for installation Stair Nosing is designed for installation on the edge of a stair tread. I made the mistake of adjusting for each step and couldn’t figure it out until I dug deeper into the comments. The highly compressed self-tapping screw insure that the joint will never separate. I was very pleased to see Don’s method described so well. I learned this system from Don Zepp and Norm was my senior. I sometimes cut the nosing with a Japanese foil saw using the stock material as a float for the saw to ride on and break it off with a chisel, that way I don’t have to deal with cutting the nosing detail into the skirt board. 2) Norm’s explanation of the process was spot on. The treads are of the same distressed oak as the floors (and some are 18″! After using my trade skills in Vietnam, I came back and worked in various aspects of the trade, I became a Carpentry teacher and did that for 25 yrs. Thank you to you and Norm and Don Zepp! This scribe technique is pretty cool. for the photo to! Any insight from a professional would be appreciated though as I am just a DIY’er. Building Plyometric Boxes (Plyo Boxes): Plyometric boxes are a fantastic workout tool and are common sight in Crossfit Gyms. He was also a very gifted master stair builder. I have faced repair and re model work that brings several different skills and methods together for one such task. Nonsense and a waste of time. If the risers happened not to all be exactly the same height, wouldn’t that throw your measurements and ultimately, your cuts off? (see picture). Edging - Pocket hole joinery pulls edging up tight against table tops and countertops - and keeps it there. One thing that you forgot to mention though is that when he used to demonstrate this method he also used to tell us that when he was done, he would tell the customer that if they could slide a new dollar bill between the skirt board and the treads or risers anywhere along the stair flight, he would do the job for free. Any ideas? But for the small shop and weekend woodworker, pocket hole joinery took a giant leap forward in 1990, when Craig Sommerfield brought out the first commercially available model of his remarkable Kreg Jig. Then once the board is cut, it will be slid into place, exactly matching to it. Like others, I was concerned that by cutting the skirt board at the last line, I would effectively be dropping every measurement by one step height. Welcome to Hancock Lumber's webTrack service. We save time and expense on the stairs. Very valuable information here. All the comments make this sound fool proof. …and I carefully cut just to the scribe line. Regards, Don taught this method based on building a new set of stairs which he perfected in the 50’s housing boom when all stairs were built on the job. The photos were a nice touch. Carl. Very straight forward for any finisher to accomplish without the hassle. Likewise, if one tread is 1/16” higher than the rest, the scribe mark will tell you to remove that much more waste stock, which would otherwise have kept the finished piece from settling into place on the rest of the treads. Thank you very much Carl for this posting. Any interest in a road trip? It has the benefit of hiding the cuts when viewed from above and also locks-in the treads and risers (from the front and top, anyway),like a housed stringer. If the treads differed in height slightly wouldn’t that affect the accuracy? THAT would get you into the kind of trouble you refer to. I am a DIYer and love learning new techniques and tricks. Thus the stair run at the wall is much wider than in the straight sections. Try this. Decks - Attach outdoor decking, rails and balusters with pocket hole joinery. I’m not sure. Today there's a whole range of Kreg Jig packages, from ultra-affordable kits with just the most important features to the most complete system you're likely to find anywhere - the Kreg K3 Master System. Along with that, the self tapping screws exert a tremendous amount of clamping pressure, drawing the surfaces of the wood into the "intimate contact" that adhesive manufacturers say is among the most important factors in producing a solid glue joint. Any ideas how to join pieces together seamlessly? Perhaps some think the scribed skirt board is less work than scribing each tread to the skirt? After you have one comment approved, all of your subsequent comments will appear immediately. Well written article that offers an easy, yet elegant, solution to the problem and opens the door to solving so many other ‘like’ issues. I started teaching HS Carpentry 10 years ago. I also went there – 9W8 I was a “bricky” as well. ), I did fine on the lower 3 steps below a landing. Regards, Thanks for sharing. This is what I did, using 8’ 1×12. With Don Zepp at the helm, the building trade students at the school considered it the place to be. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. sheets feature American-grown timber throughout with decorative red oak face and back veneers that produce stellar results on DIY woodworking projects. Any variation in tread height and depth will be transferred directly to the skirt board automatically. As the manufacturer of the Kreg jig puts it, the uses for pocket hole joinery are only limited by the users imagination. Great article !! Plus I could paint it before attaching! Use this valid 50% off Amazon promo code to save on your Prime order. Thanks! Are you still in Montrose PA? Thanks. I too went to Williamson 8W5 and had the privilege to learn from such a great carpenter/stair builder. Leg Rails and Braces - Securely attach leg rails and braces quickly and invisibly. Excellent pictures that really explain the technique here. Great article. Just follow the directions and cut the wood. Can I trace the completed board on to another board for the opposite side. Gary. Thanks again! ... only both sides you can shim riser to skirt from behind if needed .Treads butted to finish string both sides using a stair jig to get length and shape of tread. For those who battle OCD but still battle ‘good enuff’ after you have battled the clock. and am exhilarated by all I’m learning. For those situations, you had to hold the scribers at a 45º angle, and scribe both edges in the same process. in the vocational public school system. My Account The truth is that the process is quite simple, and it can be done without ever touching a tape measure…really. As the manufacturer of the Kreg jig puts it, the uses for pocket hole joinery are only limited by the users imagination. Makes me want to strap on my belt again and start scribing stairs just for the pure self-indulgent enjoyment of doing good work. Thanks, again, to TIC and all the contributors. Beautiful work. I have thought about doing an article on that…. Glad you mentioned the trial run with a short piece of scrap too, I think I will need it! Kreg mcmahon April 17, 2011. While the skirt is on the horses, I also cut the ends to match the baseboard at top and bottom. For international returns, please click here. Thanks. Who would think it could be so simple. Hours: Mon-Sat: 7:00am to 8:00pm. Information for research of yearly salaries, wage level, bonus and compensation data comparison. When I first read Norm’s article on skirt scribing, four thoughts immediately came to mind: 1) He and I both learned the technique from the same instructor, Don Zepp. If a given tread is lower, or has a big hollow in the middle, say, then the scribing device won’t reach up as high, referencing as it does off of those low spots. WOW! Wood Shaper Cutters - Carbide Shaper Cutters and Accessories. I have no idea how we would have done it otherwise. ... KREG KMA3200 Shelf Pin Drilling Jig. I will be using this method again for the lower set of stairs (I have a split-level home). Very nice and simple process. We hope that gives you an idea of the versatility of pocket hole joinery. Anybody sort that out yet? You’ll only need to practice it once—it really is that simple. You should consider a video for general consumption by we DIYers that will reference your site, which, incidental, is a true wealth of expert wood working knowledge. _ Any variations in tread height, depth, overhang, as well as any cup or twist in the treads and risers, will be accounted for. You are correct that the author slides the skirt off to the left, and out of position vertically. That’s why this scribing technique works so well—it accommodates any irregularities found in the final positioning of the treads and risers. I’m going to have to read the first article but I just got it, along with the comment from Kirby that it’s scribed to each relative part. Phil: The scribe line for A IS for A, you’re not seeing it. “The timing of this learning lesson is uncanny, thank you.”. Assembled using a soy-based PureBond technology, these 3/4 in. I am an average (at best) DIYer and this method worked excellent for me. You will need to measure each overhang on the treads to finish the layout. No one can ask for more. I just used this technique on my last job and it worked extremely well. Pocket hole joints keep jambs in place and provide a tight, weather-sealed seam. Dave said: Change Store. Great instructions! Thank you! After all of the cuts have been made, though, he will slide it back along the X axis, until it has returned to the original Y axis. Don’t ask questions, go with it. And this is an effort thats totally up to you to install. The cut is completely hidden when the skirt is pushed home. A trades person has to know the basics and for sure messing up a skirt the first time will teach you. Not at all. Great thorough article. It always comes out superclean ..However I will most certainly take on this scribe technique. It does, it just does! After making the first bottom cut do you go back and modify/adjust the tread layout to match, then the risers? We have used this 2 more times. Thanks for posting this! And there are hands-on demonstrations, like the Katz Roadshow and JLC LIVE. Or are there other tricks, lessons learned for dealing with not so perfectly layed out stairs? Cabinet frames, face frames and carcases are among the most popular applications for pocket hole joinery. For these items, please call the store where you purchased them or our customer service department at 1-800-376-7856 so we can assist you. Mary. But Carl has left a little gap there for shoe, so he has removed that risk. Cut the middle section into three 8-inch-wide Treads. The the clamping pressure exerted by Kreg self tapping pocket screws makes for extremely strong and tight glue joints on edge joined material. Pocket hole joinery isn't new. And I am so glad to finally have finished stairs after 25 years in our home. Carl, I believe that Don would be very pleased to see you passing on his knowledge. Carl would like to give a tip of the hat to Todd Murdock for putting together the illustrations for Norm Yeager’s article—it’s uncanny how Todd’s illustrations mirror the photos Carl took 20 years ago. Construction Technology – Masonry. He’s saying upfront it’s easier and faster to put in the skirt, THEN the stair treads. Or perhaps better still, to communicate a bit more clearly what is needed. I just read the article and saw that you graduated from Williamson. Install the treads first and leave 1/8 expansion gaps on the ends and then cover that up with the skirt? Wow…remind me not to hire Phil. I am so appreciative of this article and each step-by-step picture and explanation. 2. Coordinates with laminate flooring, trim and moldings. Using a scrap piece of tread material, I connect the dots between the riser, nosing, and tread for the entire flight of stairs. Great article. What’s left is plywood treads and risers. I’m glad Google pointed this article. Oh, and by the way, he always used hand tools when he demonstrated it. Thanks so much for making this kind of help available. But I would scribe the first step, running my scribe on the floor, make my cut, then proceed to scribe the entire stair case. Jambs - Add extension jamb to a window or door without visible fasteners. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Saratoga Hickory 3/4 in. If you’re happy with the one side, you’re probably getting the technique down. Currently I am thinking about making a scribe which offsets to the side by the distance from bottom step to the wall and then doing something similar at the top with a mitre in the middle. Luckily the mistakes were made on scrap pieces used to practice using this method. this bottom platform is throwing everything off. With that said, learning different ways to achieve a goal gives you a broad base of knowledge to rely on for problem solving. Plus only cost about $15 too! We are proud of the quality of our products, and we stand behind them 100%. That makes a hard job easy. are not consistent widths. Sure do appreciate you passing on your wisdom for others to benefit from. Looking at the last picture before the saw comes into play, it’s easy to make the mistake of thinking that you could make the horizontal scribe lines by tracing the underside of a straightedge laid on the treads. How do I work around this? It may clear up some of the confusion. Who is that young guy with the dark hair in the photos?

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